tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post4008342908132265518..comments2024-03-01T08:19:54.547+00:00Comments on BobFromBrockley: Hospitals, Palestinians, antisemites, etcbobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-88806859416093755272012-11-27T12:57:35.173+00:002012-11-27T12:57:35.173+00:00Sarah, I meant to start my comment differently, bu...Sarah, I meant to start my comment differently, but then lost it to cyberspace. I meant to start by noting that it was 'a sort of apology'. But what I believe the Readers' Editor should have said but didn't (rather than excusing occasional lapses in the paper, whether hard copy or online) was as I noted at the end of my 3rd paragraph.Brian Goldfarbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-35618880253484195502012-11-26T11:02:34.449+00:002012-11-26T11:02:34.449+00:00I had a long correspondence with the then Readers&...I had a long correspondence with the then Readers' Editor 6 years or so ago. They had published an article by Timothy Garton Ash on "The Role of Europe in the Rise of Antisemitism". The letters page (when the responses rolled in) was illustrated with a pocket cartoon of the Star of David overlaid on a map of Western Europe.<br /><br />Despite a very long correspondence, the paper would not accept that other meanings can, quite legitimately, be attached to symbols (especially symbols) other than those intended by the user. This was said as a social scientist. We have exactly the same scenario here: Steve Bell isn't antisemitic (probably not) and didn't intend the symbology to be seen as antisemitic, the Readers' Editor is saying, so that's alright then. No it bloody well isn't alright, then or ever.<br /><br />They are all, at The Guardian, missing the vital point that others, many others, DO see these images as antisemitic, and therefore both Bell and the paper should be saying some variant of "Ooops, didn't mean that. Sorry. Will try not to do it again."<br /><br />It was the lack of saying anything like this that made us, all those years ago, stop being Guardian Readers, and their behaviour now will certainly keep us away from it for the forseeable future.<br /><br />Brian Goldfarbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-22145624210756479542012-11-26T06:13:51.018+00:002012-11-26T06:13:51.018+00:00Brian - and Bob - did you see this apology buried ...Brian - and Bob - did you see this apology buried away here? <br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/25/accusations-of-antisemitism-political-cartoonSarah ABhttp://hurryupharry.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-15660566517108795182012-11-25T22:48:57.544+00:002012-11-25T22:48:57.544+00:00"The CST complained, very carefully, and were..."The CST complained, very carefully, and were portrayed, predictably, as playing the antisemitism card to stifle criticism etc etc."<br /><br />Umm, well, yes, sort of. What actually happened was that the CST (among others) accurately called out Bell for his use (witting or otherwise - given the paper he works for, quite possibly unwitting) of clear antisemitic tropes. He, and others on his behalf (he's a big boy and doesn't need any help on this), promptly employed the Livingstone Formulation, to whit: "All I was doing was criticising Israel, and I get accused of antisemitism".<br /><br />No, sunshine, you weren't criticising Israel, you were using antisemitic tropes.<br /><br />BTW, Bob, thanks for your nice remark about my style of commenting on Engage. Much appreciated.<br />Brian Goldfarbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-67667596429718126292012-11-25T20:45:33.727+00:002012-11-25T20:45:33.727+00:00I basically agree. Although the Northern Ireland p...I basically agree. Although the Northern Ireland parallel is of course inexact, it gives me hope. bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-23777348305379052412012-11-25T08:03:00.013+00:002012-11-25T08:03:00.013+00:00Some depressing stuff there. I'm glad there w...Some depressing stuff there. I'm glad there was a good turnout for the Lewisham march though. I read the Lozowick piece because someone linked to it on HP, and I thought it seemed perfectly fair, but I wondered whether, even though so many on the Palestinian side have eliminationist views rather than the narrower goals of the IRA, there might still be room for hoping that attitudes can shift, that many Palestinians could be swayed by pragmatism (don't many have a preference for one state but agree they could leave with two states if pushed?). One small example - a Palestinian writer who changed her mind about supporting suicide bombers after she began a long correspondence with an Israeli woman. (Though obviously Israel cannot simply hope for the best, but must prepare for the worse. ) Sarah ABhttp://hurryupharry.org/noreply@blogger.com