tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post8938972933867669883..comments2024-03-01T08:19:54.547+00:00Comments on BobFromBrockley: From Congress House to Green Squarebobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-18100853869205789252011-03-09T04:06:15.657+00:002011-03-09T04:06:15.657+00:00More on Libya:
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/...More on Libya:<br /><br />http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/a-reply-to-jean-bricmont/<br /><br />http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/diana-johnstone-qaddafi-and-the-dangers-of-rote-thinking/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-26036930939555813282011-03-03T10:33:11.078+00:002011-03-03T10:33:11.078+00:00From thatn it would seem that he does care whether...From thatn it would seem that he does care whether Garddafi is in power, just that he thinks the question is moot because he's a goner.<br />And I'd tend to agree with Yoshie on Hezbollah, if not Press TV.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-29222498210550020652011-03-02T15:50:12.443+00:002011-03-02T15:50:12.443+00:00I have been extremely liberal, if that's the r...I have been extremely liberal, if that's the right word, about taking things out of spam, and have not deleted anything yet. <br /><br />The SU link is priceless and I'm grateful of it: <em>The political questions in the Arab east are now being posed, and discussed to the greatest extent, by easterners. Radicals in the West have an important input - provided they understand that.<br /><br />Comment by Kevin Ovenden</em><br /><br />The first comment on that thread is also sickening:<br /><em>I’m not as concerned that Gaddafi can hold on to power. He seems finished. What’s important here is that NATO/US/UN not be given a right to intervene.<br /><br />Yoshie also had a good article: http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/furuhashi240211.html<br /><br />Comment by beesat</em><br /><br />Beesat doesn't care about the people of Libya, so long as it is only their "own" tyrants who oppress them and not nasty foreign ones. (Yoshie's post isn't as bad as some, apart from where he calls PressTV and Hezbollah part of the "axis of resistance".)bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-55166962185022137802011-03-02T14:39:01.742+00:002011-03-02T14:39:01.742+00:00The link I left to some actual reverse orientalism...The link I left to some <a href="http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=7751#comment-323994" rel="nofollow">actual reverse orientalism</a> doesn't seem to have appeared. Maybe like the spam filter on the site linked to, yours doesn't like helpful comments?skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-24743588092358056692011-03-02T10:51:41.338+00:002011-03-02T10:51:41.338+00:00kidmarx is constantly calling you and other liars,...<i>kidmarx is constantly calling you and other liars,</i><br />Er, no, I'm suggesting that Bob over-eggs his pudding quite a bit. I'm calling you a liar,the suggestion on the last thread that I was a fan of Israel Shamir only the latest in a series.I'm also calling you a hypocrite.<br /><br /><i>Isn't Skidmarx's gameplan plain enough?</i><br />Well here's what I think it is:<br />1. To agree with what I think is right and disagree with what I think is wrong (probably doing a lot more of the latter)<br />2. To engage in honest debate with those who respond in like fashion.<br />3. To try not to get to upset with those with a wholly dishonest approach to web commentary.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-52233514677593737722011-03-01T16:22:57.884+00:002011-03-01T16:22:57.884+00:00"At least now your complaint approximates the...<i>"At least now your complaint approximates the truth."</i><br /><br />Bob,<br /><br />Skidmarx is constantly calling you and other liars, in the nicest possible way. <br /><br />Isn't Skidmarx's gameplan plain enough?ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-62492952977699113512011-03-01T16:19:29.478+00:002011-03-01T16:19:29.478+00:00At least now your complaint approximates the truth...At least now your complaint approximates the truth.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-44812277733775703522011-03-01T12:53:15.818+00:002011-03-01T12:53:15.818+00:00Rosen was ignorant, or convincingly claims to be, ...<em>Rosen was ignorant, or convincingly claims to be, when he made the offending remarks</em><br /><br />Rosen, in his first tweet laughing about the assualt, LINKED TO a very short CBS report that said that Logan had been "brutally assaulted" in its first two lines. In the second paragraph, it says she "suffered a brutal and sustained sexual assault". OK, maybe he linked to the article without reading it. <br /><br />Ten minutes later, after other tweaters admonished him, he tweated "Yes yes its wrong what happened to her. Of course. I don’t support that. But, it would have been funny if it happened to Anderson too". Surely by this time he'd bothered to read the article he linked to? Or he just admitted it was wrong without bothering to read it? And still he makes a joke of it.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-42237412316958154272011-03-01T11:21:49.285+00:002011-03-01T11:21:49.285+00:00"He cannot see that the reports might be true..."He cannot see that the reports might be true,"<br />But he does recognise that the reports are true.<br />"It takes a very extreme cast of mind to deny it[the existence of honour killings], the extreme cast of mind one finds only with people like Skidmarx,"<br />Maybe you should wait for me to ever deny the existence of honour killings before making such an accusation.<br />"Because brown men are always guilty in the orientalist narrative, they must be actually always innocent."<br />Your imputation, nobody has said that.<br />" "Arab victims would never get attention": well, people like Yoshie and Elf wouldn't agree, because they think Arab victims of sexual violence get too much attention," "<br />Closer to the truth here, but still not quite there. They may object to Western liberals disrupting solidarity demonstrations by raising these issues, but I think you are carrying your interpretation too far.<br />" ""most victims of sexual assault, whether in Egypt or the US will never get attention". Right, let's make sure they get more attention by laughing when one of them does get attention!!"<br />That's shit. Contentious Centrist, even without going back to his links, shows that Rosen was ignorant, or convincingly claims to be, when he made the offending remarks (he would be the first person to paste a link without properly checking it out).<br /><br />If you're sick of this shit, stop wallowing in it, and continually claiming that it is what it is not.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-62613380580414729872011-02-28T16:38:47.453+00:002011-02-28T16:38:47.453+00:00The Mark Elf JsF post I linked to does not explici...The Mark Elf JsF post I linked to does not explicitly say "honour killings are ok". It says that the very term itself is "used by western Orientalists to suggest that there is something worse about this than the two women killed by men every week in the UK". In other words, it disputes the very idea of there being such a thing as honour killings. <br /><br />In fact, the term is used by both British-based feminists who are active on fighting domestic violence here in the UK, and by feminists in the parts of the world where honour killings take place. It is even used by Jacqueline Rose and Tariq Ali. It takes a very extreme cast of mind to deny it, the extreme cast of mind one finds only with people like Skidmarx, Mark Elf or Yoshie Furuhashi. Yoshie, whose baleful contribution to Bob Pitt's What Next journal is linked to by Elf, people may recall, is the defender of the Iranian theocracy that real leftists, like Louis Proyect, recognise as a cancer on the movement. See Proyect's recent attack on Yoshie's defence of Gaddafi here http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/qaddafi-and-the-monthly-review/<br /><br />Anyways, I call this reverse orientalism because it deploys the language of Edward Said's insightful analysis to excuse abuses of women and sexual minorities when they are committed by the victims of Orientalism. <br /><br />So, when Rosen claims that he "was sort of anticipating a return to the old theme about unleashed brown natives attacking a white woman", as a way of minimising Logan's assault, he is deploying exactly this reverse-orientalism. He cannot see that the reports might be true, because they contain brown men and a white woman. Because brown men are always guilty in the orientalist narrative, they must be actually always innocent. <br /><br />As for the other bits... "Arab victims would never get attention": well, people like Yoshie and Elf wouldn't agree, because they think Arab victims of sexual violence get too much attention, but even Nir Rosen ought to realise that CNN and the other news media are pretty heavily represented in North Africa right now, although I'm not sure if Logan herself is still there.<br /><br />"this would detract from everything else that was happening". Right, let's tweat about it so as to stop it from detracting attention from other things!!<br /><br />"most victims of sexual assault, whether in Egypt or the US will never get attention". Right, let's make sure they get more attention by laughing when one of them does get attention!!<br /><br />I'm sick of this shit.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-79731975458167197882011-02-28T13:46:36.589+00:002011-02-28T13:46:36.589+00:00"That he didn't realise was a sexual assa..."That he didn't realise was a sexual assault at the time."<br /><br />Of course he did. When you link to a piece of news and comment on that piece it seems rather odd to claim later that you did not read that very piece of news you linked to.<br /><br />"Anderson continued to press Rosen on whether he read the CBS statement on Lara, which said she suffered a “brutal and sustained sexual assault.”<br /><br />The CNN anchor did not understand how Rosen could not have read such the short statement before linking on Twitter.<br /><br />“Yes, I should have read it,” Rosen said. “I just heard the word assault, not that that’s just — no matter what I say, it doesn’t sound good.”<br /><br />OK! NEWS: REPORT — LARA LOGAN, CBS REPORTER, SEXUALLY ABUSED & BEATEN IN EGYPT<br /><br />“You honestly want people to believe that you were linking to a CBS News statement that you yourself had not read?” Anderson fired back."<br /><br />http://www.okmagazine.com/2011/02/nir-rosen-tells-anderson-cooper-he-didnt-know-all-the-lara-logan-assault-details/The Contentious Centristhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07370528817706233156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-64771102051624749812011-02-28T11:05:58.352+00:002011-02-28T11:05:58.352+00:00what Nir Rosen said, in apology for laughing at a ...<i>what Nir Rosen said, in apology for laughing at a sexual assualt: </i><br />That he didn't realise was a sexual assault at the time.I think perhaps I must have a serious problem. Could you explain which of "celebrities get more attention", "there's an oft-repeated trope of native mobs", "Arab victims would never get attention" or "most victims of sexual assault, whether in Egypt or the US will never get attention." is objectionable, because they seem like reasonable statements.<br /><i>More obviously, it is what Nir Rosen said about the sexual assault that reveals him as monstrous.</i><br />Not that obviously, obviously.<br /><i> The rest of his "anti-imperialist" nonsense (actually fellow travelling for fascism)</i><br />I'm having a little problem with the prejudicial language, unsupported assertions.<br /><br />Reading the JSF link I think the attack on Tatchell might be OTT, but I don't see honour killings or the execution of gay men being defended.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-40771751133773815832011-02-27T21:22:20.061+00:002011-02-27T21:22:20.061+00:00Let's remind people of the link,
http://brock...Let's remind people of the link,<br /><br />http://brockley.blogspot.com/2009/03/from-bobs-archive-opposing-patriarchal.htmlModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-3634260401264448182011-02-27T20:49:21.834+00:002011-02-27T20:49:21.834+00:00Thanks for the comments and additional links Graem...Thanks for the comments and additional links Graeme. Thanks too for the corrections Mod and Skid. I will change Totten to Weiss tomorrow. <br /><br />OK, this is what Nir Rosen said, in apology for laughing at a sexual assualt: <em>"A part of me was bothered by how celebrities, especially white ones, get so much attention, and before I realized it was a sexual assault I was sort of anticipating a return to the old theme about unleashed brown natives attacking a white woman. Another part of me was bothered by the knowledge that Arab victims would never get attention, that this would detract from everything else that was happening, and that most victims of sexual assault, whether in Egypt or the US will never get attention."</em> If you can't see what a load of bullshit that is, you have a serious problem. <br /><br />I have absolutely no complaint about what Nir Rosen says about mcChystal; that is totally beside the point. For a start, Logan didn't exactly laud McChrystal. More obviously, it is what Nir Rosen said about the sexual assault that reveals him as monstrous. The rest of his "anti-imperialist" nonsense (actually fellow travelling for fascism) is also obscene. <br /><br />Of course the left as a whole does not practise that kind of extreme reverse-orientalism, but there are plenty of examples that condemn the Nir Rosen "anti-imperialist" wing of it, such as the nonsense the Guardian recently saw fit to publish about "human rights imperialism", the pseudo-academic postcolonial crap about "queer imperialism", and, in the hyperlink I already included, the Jews sans Frontieres defence of honour killing. A left that excuses sexual assualt, honour killing and execution of gay men for being gay is not a left that can be defended.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-68915455884006848542011-02-27T14:48:50.386+00:002011-02-27T14:48:50.386+00:00Michael Totten shows
Or Michael Weiss shows that i...<i>Michael Totten shows</i><br />Or Michael Weiss shows that if a left wing jounalist says he doesn't support something, and apologises for the remarks he does make, he's still condemned to the Ninth Circle of Hell becuase he dared to suggest that lauding McChrystal was to be a warmonger.<br /><br /><i>the Western left, which approves of sexual and other violence against women if it is perpetrated by “unleashed brown natives”.</i><br />Thta's not what Rosen says, it's not what the Left says, maybe you should watch your language as suggested by a link a couple of posts back.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-69809978099342438032011-02-26T13:38:30.637+00:002011-02-26T13:38:30.637+00:00Nice overview, Bob. It's especially worthwhil...Nice overview, Bob. It's especially worthwhile to point out how the EU and Italy especially have been outsourcing their immigration policing to Libya.<br /><br />This broke in the Canadian news yesterday: <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/02/24/snc-lavalin-prison022411.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/02/24/snc-lavalin-prison022411.html</a><br /><br />It's absolutely vile--as if a prison built to "international human rights standards" means anything in a country that doesn't have much regard for those sorts of niceties--but Canadian business involvement in Libya has been going on for years. John Ivison has a good piece in the <a href="http://www.financialpost.com/news/energy/greased+Canada+friendship/4329548/story.html" rel="nofollow">National Post about it here</a>.<br /><br />And now Paul Martin, the former PM who lobbied Libya on behalf of Canadian business, is calling for UN intervention: <a href="http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/united-nations-must-intervene-in-libya-says-ex-pm-paul-martin-116737314.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/united-nations-must-intervene-in-libya-says-ex-pm-paul-martin-116737314.html</a>Graemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15375230713040998061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-15652563494581495902011-02-25T20:23:47.641+00:002011-02-25T20:23:47.641+00:00Bob,
Not to nitpick, but :)
“Progressive” Nasser...Bob,<br /><br />Not to nitpick, but :)<br /><br />“Progressive” Nasserite Andy Newman shouldn't that be:<br /><br />“Progressive” Nasserite, damn- the-Tibetan-running-dogs-what-a-cheek-for-asking-for-freedom Andy Newman?ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.com