tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post3629226741226783379..comments2024-03-01T08:19:54.547+00:00Comments on BobFromBrockley: South London Limmudbobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-3249771450029340342008-07-03T17:27:00.000+01:002008-07-03T17:27:00.000+01:00Hi Bob,Nice to see a mention of South London Limmu...Hi Bob,<BR/>Nice to see a mention of South London Limmud- this is the 5th one-day Limmud in South London and the 2nd to be held in SE London.<BR/>There will also be lots of music: a female Cantor, a scratch choir, an Israeli dance lesson, a homage to Gershwin, and more.<BR/>And a separate programme for young children featuring stories, music, crafts and football.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-42525934781187212772008-07-03T16:56:00.000+01:002008-07-03T16:56:00.000+01:00"...where does one draw the line between racism an..."...where does one draw the line between racism and understandable fears due to constant terrorist harassment?"<BR/><BR/>This is just an attempt on my part to answer a very good and pertinent question.<BR/><BR/>If you ever heard or read Kahane's rants against the Arabs, you would know where the line is. <BR/><BR/>There are fears motivated by a sense of insecurity and frustration, and there are fears whipped up by the likes of Kanane, which are grounded in contempt for the Other's culture, life style, language, etc.<BR/><BR/>The manifestations of the two kinds of hatred often seem similar. Such as mobs beating up Arab-Israelis or Paletstians workers who happen to be around when a terrorist arrack happens. The result of both is the same. <BR/><BR/>Racism is chronic and incurable, while the Beitar type of Arabophobia will disappear when there is normalization between the two peoples.The Contentious Centristhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07370528817706233156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-22972923575564438072008-07-03T14:53:00.000+01:002008-07-03T14:53:00.000+01:00I've read the Beitar article more thoroughly now. ...I've read the Beitar article more thoroughly now. It's really interesting. I am fascinated with the way football becomes a space of political representation - how certain teams (Real Madrid, AC Roma, Beitar Jerusalem, Glasgow Rangers) become a focus for fascist organisation, how their local rivals' fanbase become a focus for an anti-fascist politics that remains trapped in a communalist logic, and how the carnivalesque space of football leads to more extreme forms of politics. (These are topics explored on <A HREF="http://invereskstreet.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Inveresk Street Ingrate</A>.)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, the article is very clear that La Famillia are not typical of Beitar and that Beitar are not typical of Israeli attitudes. But it also presents some poll findings (poll findings: always consume with pinch of salt) on Israeli attitudes to Arabs. Question (for <A HREF="http://contentious-centrist.blogspot.com/2008/06/peace-sultan-knish-i.html" REL="nofollow">Noga</A> and others): where does one draw the line between racism and understandable fears due to constant terrorist harassment?<BR/><BR/>Finally, the article also made me even more keen to go to the Ellen Goldberg talk at Limmud (I've seen her talk elsewhere about the New Israel Fund's fantastic environmental projects), although I also want to go to the talk about <A HREF="http://danielscounter.blogspot.com/search/label/Neve%20Shalom" REL="nofollow">Neve Shalom</A>, a project which I also support...bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-50163085294696505822008-07-02T16:47:00.000+01:002008-07-02T16:47:00.000+01:00Thanks Andrew, thanks Michael. (And, Michael, sorr...Thanks Andrew, thanks Michael. (And, Michael, sorry it's taken me so long!)<BR/><BR/>On the football story: yes, a depressing if fascinating story. This very much relates to the debate I was having with Noga <A HREF="https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=10131050&postID=9063252429640856192" REL="nofollow">here</A>/<A HREF="http://contentious-centrist.blogspot.com/2008/06/peace-sultan-knish-i.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>. Beitar fans, especially Beitar ultras, should not be taken as typical of Israeli society, any more than pro-IRA Celtic ultras or pro-fascist Rangers ultras should be taken as typical of Scottish society. Beitar has a long association with the hard right in Israeli politics, and football's carnivalesque world invites extreme expressions of whatever positions are associated with football.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-11108786982583842582008-07-02T14:34:00.000+01:002008-07-02T14:34:00.000+01:00Bob,Many thanks for promoting this event which I a...Bob,<BR/>Many thanks for promoting this event which I am helping to organise.<BR/><BR/>A couple of other sessions worth going to:<BR/><BR/><B>Fiyaz Mughal</B><BR/>From Interfaith to...? (Session 2)<BR/><BR/>This session looks at the possible natural progression to interfaith work and will also explore whether there is no natural progression? Is interfaith work that important in today's environment - nationally or globally?<BR/><BR/><I>Fiyaz Mughal's working history includes over 12 years experience in the community and voluntary sector in positions that have included social policy lobbying, project and general management. Currently, Fiyaz is the Director of a not for profit organization called Faith Matters which works on reducing extremism and developing platforms for discourse and interaction between Muslims, Sikhs and Jewish communities right across the UK.</I><BR/><BR/><B>David Newman</B><BR/>Israel at Sixty - but just who and what is a contemporary Israeli? (Session 1)<BR/><BR/>Israel's next generation of leaders are young adults who were born at least forty years after the State of Israel was established. They are more global and less impacted by the ideology of the State founders who created the State in a post-Holocaust world. How does their vision of Israel differ from that of their grandparents' generation? What is their Identity as Israelis, Jews or World Citizens? And how do they relate to the changing nature of Israel Diaspora relations?<BR/><BR/><I>David Newman is professor of political geography in the Department of Politics and Government at Ben Gurion University in Israel. He is currently the editor of the International Journal of Geopolitics. Originally from the UK, he has lived in Israel since 1982. He is currently on sabbatical in London and represents Israel's universities in all matters related to the academic boycott.</I><BR/><BR/>And there are many other great sessions and great presenters including Clive Lawton, Daniel Reisel (Why Darwin Matters), Dan Rickman (What does the Mishnah say about non-Jews?). Some really challenging and thought provoking sessions.Michael Abrahamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08604267986306140741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-82931739538283013462008-07-02T13:47:00.000+01:002008-07-02T13:47:00.000+01:00On the football one, did you see this in Prospect?...On the football one, did you see <A HREF="http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=10210" REL="nofollow">this</A> in Prospect?<BR/><BR/>Not happy reading.Andrew Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10763753671606930383noreply@blogger.com