tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post3783499201574139615..comments2024-03-01T08:19:54.547+00:00Comments on BobFromBrockley: So, the time has come not to renew membership of the Green Party [2011]bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comBlogger207125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-73716682025498150592021-02-26T13:55:51.478+00:002021-02-26T13:55:51.478+00:00Anyone who is voting for someone or something base...Anyone who is voting for someone or something based on what someone/something else tells them to is a moron. Everyone, not just seniors, should be doing the research, finding out what a candidate or issue is really about, read the issue itself so you know what it says (not what someone else tells you it says), and determining who and what you want according to your own judgment. Following what someone or something else tells you to, including some religious leader or some other politiician, is being lead by the nose to slaughter. AARP makes recommendations according to what their [board] determines would be best for the most--and if you do not let them know your opinions and want they have no way to know what "the most" want. Every single time we vote on something, which seems like at least once a month, I get slate cards from organization and people telling me I should vote for this or vote for that person just because of ethnicity or gender or some other lame thing. So don't blame AARP.<br /><br />arrius lionhttps://lawswoodclaims.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-72028999440128742212015-01-27T23:02:55.365+00:002015-01-27T23:02:55.365+00:00Not so, the belief that God promised the Jews a ho...Not so, the belief that God promised the Jews a homeland in Israel is part of their faith., and without a homeland Jews will always be vulnerable to genocide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-28111461217968027762011-03-11T14:39:54.255+00:002011-03-11T14:39:54.255+00:00This is another thing that has particularly irked ...This is another thing that has particularly irked me:<br /><em>Some anti-semitism appears as attacks on Israel , does not mean that we need to think that the priority when considering fundamental political criticisms of Israel is to see how they can be claimed as racist rather than thinking about whether they are true.</em><br /><br />This seems to me the dominant narrative on the left, including in the Green Party, when it comes to allegations of antisemitism. And it is completely wide of the mark. <br /><br />When making criticisms of Israeli policy, the priority should indeed be whether they are true. There should be no need to ask whether the criticisms are racist, because most sensible and sane people would simply not make racist criticisms of Israel. Once racist criticisms of Israel are made, however, it is perfectly legitimate to point out that they are racist. This should be completely obvious and straightforward to any anti-racist. To actively deny this is something only a racist or someone deeply in denial would do. <br /><br />The constant "stifling debate about Israel" cry is absurd, given how easily accessible that cry is in the public sphere, issued again and again by the Caroline Lucases, Ken Livingstones, Jenny Tonges, Rupert Reads and so on of this world. <b>It's a bit like the Daily Mail commentators who keep saying "We're not allowed to talk about immigration because we get accused of racism".</b>bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-72997492161880879402011-03-11T14:28:18.092+00:002011-03-11T14:28:18.092+00:00Btw, a "specific" policy on antisemitism...Btw, a "specific" policy on antisemitism is different from a "separate" policy. If there were allegations of persistent Islamophobia in the party, especially if these were disputed, I would expect the Party to adopt a specific policy on this.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-68211615364780148732011-03-11T14:25:58.863+00:002011-03-11T14:25:58.863+00:00"Imagine if the issue were not antisemitism i..."Imagine if the issue were not antisemitism in the Green Party but rather Islamophobia in the Conservative Party, and someone claimed that there is no need to investigate because it is all in the minds of the Muslim members, who have bullied the leadership into investigating. That response would immediately be condemned by anti-racists."<br /><br />"Imagine if disabled party members or Muslim party members or lesbian party members reported discrimination and harassment and were told there would be no party policy because their issues were “no more important or prevalent” than any other discrimination."<br /><br />"Imagine if a similar refusal to do anything took place with serious multiple allegations of anti-black or anti-Muslim racism in the party."<br /><br />I think I'm being pretty clear that antisemitism is not a special case, but that it is treated differently by people who call themselves anti-racist. It shouldn't be treated differently. <br /><br />Nonetheless, as with all other forms of racism, we need rigorous analysis and definitions that identify the specificities and commonalties, enabling us to act effectively against all of them.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-25766729976998546332011-03-11T14:23:50.154+00:002011-03-11T14:23:50.154+00:00Bob - time is precious to all of us but if you are...Bob - time is precious to all of us but if you are running short then you can always always stop playing games. Much of the circularity has been by you and by commentators you haven't threatened with deletion.<br /><br />The main argument here has been for the Green Party to establish a policy specifically on antisemitism as distinct from other forms of racism. You have supported that and, before claiming that you were not actually promoting the working definition you were promoting it.<br /><br />I am not wasting my time looking for your exact wording but if you are now saying that you are happy with the Greens not to adopt a specific and separate policy on antisemitism that's fine but it is a flat contradiction of many of your comments but then you have contradicted yourself many times in this thread.<br /><br />I'm done here but if you and your associates were more honest in your arguments a lot of time could have been saved all round.levi9909https://www.blogger.com/profile/10553481056544494411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-6507101369022089362011-03-11T13:58:25.232+00:002011-03-11T13:58:25.232+00:00I have lots to say on this, but am so busy this we...I have lots to say on this, but am so busy this week I may not say it. Most of the discussion has gotten so circular that it's not worth continuing, but there are a few things I don't want to let lie. <br /><br />This is one of them: <em>"Also, having said that antisemitism needs special treatment, he is now using quotes on institutional racism by people who clearly were not referring to antisemitism."</em> Where have I said a/s requires special treatment? I believe exactly the opposite. It is a form of racism, and needs to be treated as such.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-34268333091874913832011-03-11T11:28:23.771+00:002011-03-11T11:28:23.771+00:00David Baddiel in "Not always seeing it in bla...<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/david-baddiel-so-you-think-weve-kicked-racism-out-of-english-football-614251.html" rel="nofollow">David Baddiel</a> in "Not always seeing it in black and white" shocker.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-52545533257479665562011-03-11T11:03:38.592+00:002011-03-11T11:03:38.592+00:00i just don,t understand why anti-zionists arn,t mo...i just don,t understand why anti-zionists arn,t more interested in tackling ant-semetism.<br /><br />Some anti-zionists realise its actualy the most important issue .<br />from Alan hant description of his book .<br />Zionism the real enemy of the jews<br /><br /> "But… I also say that it’s unreasonable and unrealistic to expect the Jews of the diaspora to play their necessary part in bringing the Zionist state to heel, and averting a Clash of Civilisations, unless and until they receive the maximum possible in the way of reassurance about their security in the mainly Gentile world of which they are citizens. And this is why I call in my Epilogue, The Jews As the Light Unto Nations, for a New Covenant, not between the Jews and their God, but between the Jews and the Gentiles. (The primordial point here is that deep down almost every diaspora Jew lives with the unspeakable fear of Holocaust II and thus the perceived need, if only in the sub-consciousness, for Israel as the refuge of last resort; which is why, without the maximum possible in the way of reassurance, they won’t even think of obliging Israel to be serious about peace). "<br /><br />I disagree with the book but i must say fighting anti-semetism should be a priority for anti-zionists and others.<br /><br />The fact that it isn,t in the Green party has understandably left people rather suspicious .brocklydavenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-7469498628472957242011-03-10T22:36:36.660+00:002011-03-10T22:36:36.660+00:00Anyone serious about their ant-zionism should be t...Anyone serious about their ant-zionism should be trying to ensure anti-semetism is dealt with.<br />Infact anti-zionists i don,t agree with believe combatting anti-semetism is a pre requisite for tackling zionism.<br />from Alan hart <br />zionism the real enemy of jews<br />"But… I also say that it’s unreasonable and unrealistic to expect the Jews of the diaspora to play their necessary part in bringing the Zionist state to heel, and averting a Clash of Civilisations, unless and until they receive the maximum possible in the way of reassurance about their security in the mainly Gentile world of which they are citizens. And this is why I call in my Epilogue, The Jews As the Light Unto Nations, for a New Covenant, not between the Jews and their God, but between the Jews and the Gentiles. (The primordial point here is that deep down almost every diaspora Jew lives with the unspeakable fear of Holocaust II and thus the perceived need, if only in the sub-consciousness, for Israel as the refuge of last resort; which is why, without the maximum possible in the way of reassurance, they won’t even think of obliging Israel to be serious about peace)."<br /><br />I don,t agree with Alan Hart on zionism ,but as mentioned in my earlier post escaping anti-semetism was one the main driving forces behind zionism.<br /><br />So it makes sence for the greens to tackle anti-semetism before they consider zionism.<br /><br />The ongoing reluctance of the Greens to pass anti-semetism policies doesn,t help the Palestinians one bit.<br /><br />But then some on this thread seem more interested in hating Israel than really helping the palestinians .<br />You cant help but wonder why?dave brocklynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-71918496790012764492011-03-10T11:37:24.436+00:002011-03-10T11:37:24.436+00:00If tolerating antisemitism is not to do with antis...<i>If tolerating antisemitism is not to do with antisemitism, nor to do with anti-Zionism, apathy or being intimidated by those who claim to be the Good Jews, what is it about?</i><br />Tolerating, or not tolerating anti-semitism is about anti-semitism. It is not about getting upset when anti-zionists present their arguments.<br /><br /><i>Simply saying that only those totally blinkered by fundamentalist forms of Zionism or anti-Zionism cannot see that some antisemitism is linked to Israel.</i><br />Again, this is not an argument accurately presented. Some anti-semitism appears as attacks on Israel , does not mean that we need to think that the priority when considering fundamental political criticisms of Israel is to see how they can be claimed as racist rather than thinking about whether they are true.<br /><br /><i>You don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, but you certainly seem to spend a lot of time writing about it.</i><br />You raise the issue, I respond, and then my view is responded to. Would be a cheap point even if it was right.<br /><br /><i>those who a priori assume bad faith when they hear allegations of antisemitism refuse to do this.</i><br />Only I didn't. I made an <i>a posteriori</i> assumption of bad faith after reading that Toby Young made the assumption that Israel is "the secular form of Judaism" and so attacks on the legitimacy of such a racist state are synonymous with anti-semitism. If you want this discussion to go forward and not circle back to its start then not repeating the same distortions would be a good thing to do. Once again, what would support a rational debate is those supporting the Greens Engage position actually answering the questions put to them (I would repeat, but if they haven't shown any signs of responding so far I think I would be wasting my time), their silence suggests to me that they are only interested in debating with themselves and shouting at others, and that the search for anti-semitism in the Green Party is rather a search for ways to delegitimise anti-zionism. If Bob wants to dispute this, how about examples of anti-semitism in the Green Party that aren't linked to the Israel/Palestine debate?skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-52650486392080970982011-03-10T04:47:57.409+00:002011-03-10T04:47:57.409+00:00My position is not extreme or even particularly en...My position is not extreme or even particularly entrenched though I am more consistent in my arguments than Bob. <br /><br />I have accepted that there might be an issue with antisemitism in the Greens, though I am not convinced and I have said there might be a case for a specific policy on antisemitism though I am not convinced of that either.<br /><br />But only a liar or a fool would claim that the EUMCXR/FRA WD is an earnest attempt to address or inform that policy. Whoever it was on the GRPC that suggested the WD was in the fool category.<br /><br />Bob has gone from all out support for the working definition to the extent of suggesting that those who oppose it are tolerant of antisemitism but then he has said he is not promoting it. For all his comments, not once has he suggested an alternative definition in substance or in style.<br /><br />Also, having said that antisemitism needs special treatment, he is now using quotes on institutional <i>racism</i> by people who clearly were not referring to antisemitism.<br /><br />BTW, I have just checked the original <a href="http://jewssansfrontieres2.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html#1065836097848254174%22" rel="nofollow">Greens Engage post</a> about the GPRC and whoever proposed the WD as a guide said the following: <i>We recognise that it may need to be revised in light of the recent Citizen Act/Nationality Act in Israel.</i><br /><br />They have proposed a definition of antisemitism that might change if Israel behaves badly. That is the ultimate absurdity and for it to pass without comment from the self-styled opponents of antisemitism shows how little they either know or truly care about antisemitism. This does not simply open the door to criticism of Israel it seems to admit that the WD is a sop to Israel's supporters.levi9909https://www.blogger.com/profile/10553481056544494411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-81269007785959608002011-03-09T18:36:11.385+00:002011-03-09T18:36:11.385+00:00My attempt to get this post back on track have obv...My attempt to get this post back on track have obviously failed. <br /><br /><em>when you say that anti-zionists should get off of the tiger you mean that we should be silenced or rubbished</em> Er, no, I'm just saying you ought to stop creating a space for racism. I'm not trying to silence anyone. Maybe I'm "rubbishing" the creation of a space for racism, but I'm not sure that's such an offence. Please, let's keep things in proportion. We are talking about guidelines on how to recognise antisemitism, not legislation on putting people in prison.<br /><br /><em>and that's why you support the EUMC WD that you said earlier in the thread you weren't promoting.</em> I don't know what you mean by "supporting" or "promoting". I am saying now, as I think I've always said, that it is a useful starting point, adopted by the GPRC sensibly and in good faith. That's all. <br /><br /><em>you are now, insanely, claiming that it doesn't go far enough. so you are promoting it and then some..</em> I'm not saying it "doesn't go far enough". I'm saying it is a useful starting point. The Green Party should develop policy that reflects its own realities.<br /><br /><b>I'm going off line now, and will probably not be able to check in for 24 hours. And probably won't further engage in the same circular debate. If people have a problem with the idea of closing the door on racism, then they really have no business here. Anyone who wants to honestly discuss the issues the Green Party faces, and how they can move forward, pleas contribute. </b>bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-10211569957944652452011-03-09T18:13:42.592+00:002011-03-09T18:13:42.592+00:00bob - pious intonations are no substitute for soun...bob - pious intonations are no substitute for sound analysis and honest argument.<br /><br />when you say that anti-zionists should get off of the tiger you mean that we should be silenced or rubbished and that's why you support the EUMC WD that you said earlier in the thread you weren't promoting. you are now, insanely, claiming that it doesn't go far enough. so you are promoting it and then some...<br /><br />by all means change your mind, but at least admit that's what you've done.levi9909https://www.blogger.com/profile/10553481056544494411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-25043532649960046782011-03-09T17:28:15.566+00:002011-03-09T17:28:15.566+00:00Paul Foot, "The Stephen Lawrence Case", ...Paul Foot, "The Stephen Lawrence Case", <i>Socialist Review</i> 1998: "But institutional racism is still very much with us and shows signs of worsening."<br /><br />Paul Foot, 1965: "The tiger of racialism, once unleashed, knows no master. It devours its liberators and its prey with equal ferocity." Anti-Zionists need to get off that tiger.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-88765622800613259782011-03-09T17:23:55.963+00:002011-03-09T17:23:55.963+00:00Where is Stokely Carmichael when we need him. Skid...Where is Stokely Carmichael when we need him. Skidmarx has demonstrated his commitment to anti-racism by claiming that institutional racism is not a useful concept. <br /><br />Of course, there was a sense in which Macpherson's analysis presented a racism so diffuse and invisible as to be agentless. But the opposite view, that racism is (just) about bigoted individuals, is more wrong. Institutional racism was a good characterisation of the Met in the 1990s, just as the processes of redlining and restrictive covenants that Carmichael spoke about were not about the prejudices of individual bank managers.<br /><br />--<br /><br />If tolerating antisemitism is not to do with antisemitism, nor to do with anti-Zionism, apathy or being intimidated by those who claim to be the Good Jews, what is it about? This, it seems, is the core question, and this is the question Skid, Levy and their allies and facilitators in the Green Party seem to have no interest in addressing.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-35103956200843772562011-03-09T17:03:22.195+00:002011-03-09T17:03:22.195+00:00"The Macpherson report"
Somewhere, Paul ..."The Macpherson report"<br />Somewhere, Paul Foot once did a brilliant dissection of the concept of institutional racism, showing how its use as a concept was designed to cover for the failure to deal with the actual racism and corruption in the Stephen Lawrence case. Not a useful concept.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-3566009101570825362011-03-09T16:52:44.352+00:002011-03-09T16:52:44.352+00:00I see no evidence for the claim that it suppresses...<i>I see no evidence for the claim that it suppresses or intends to suppress legitimate criticism of Israel.</i><br />I think both here and other threads there have been examples, but when you say:<br /><i>Many of the allegations of antisemitism in the Party relate to particular intensified forms of Zionist- or Israel-bashing.</i><br />you seem to be saying that this is as legitmate an aim at least as its opponents'.<br /><br /><i>Is this because of bullying by new members? Because of a kneejerk anti-Zionist assumption of bad faith whenever antisemitism is mentioned? Because they don't care?</i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Arab_League_summit" rel="nofollow">Three Noes</a>?skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-34335436524854002152011-03-09T16:52:28.656+00:002011-03-09T16:52:28.656+00:00I am not making an "argument to moderation&qu...I am not making an "argument to moderation", although I agree the Levi position is an extreme one. Simply saying that only those totally blinkered by fundamentalist forms of Zionism or anti-Zionism cannot see that some antisemitism is linked to Israel. And by the sensible anti-racists, I would include many Zionists and many anti-Zionists. <br /><br />You don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, but you certainly seem to spend a lot of time writing about it. <br /><br />Our starting point on this issue should not be some narrative or counter-narrative about whether antisemitism is or isn't always there. (You claim a prevailing narrative says it is, while your own position seems to be to systematically deny it. It also seems to me that your position is the one that has prevailed so far in the Green party, and not mine.)<br /><br />Rather, our starting point should be to take seriously allegations of racism and ask how to address them. Baddiel again: "racism has many shades of grey: <b>what should not have those shades – what should simply always be an unqualified shutting of the door – is the reaction to it</b>." We have a moral duty to take racism seriously, and those who a priori assume bad faith when they hear allegations of antisemitism refuse to do this.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-29915481568605191062011-03-09T16:41:03.831+00:002011-03-09T16:41:03.831+00:00Some anti-Zionists appear to make the a priori ass...<i>Some anti-Zionists appear to make the a priori assumption that no criticism of Israel is antisemitic, while a tiny number of Zionists see all criticism of Israel as antisemitic. Most sensible anti-racists realise that some criticism of Israel is antisemitic.</i><br />One of the argumentative tricks exposed in <i>Straight and Crooked Thinking</i> is this <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_ground" rel="nofollow">argument to moderation</a>, "a logical fallacy which asserts that any given compromise between two positions must be correct." There can be a lot more sophisticated formulation of the anti-zionist argument. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it so I might not get it perfectly right, but "there is some anti-semitism in society, and some of those anti-semites might express that through anti-Israeli actions. But to try and create a narrative that the reason why so many people in the Green Party, the U.K., or just about anywhere in the known universe think that there is something deeply obscene about the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is down to some anti-semitic trope that always seems to be in the water, rather than because of what the Israeli state does is to fly in the face of reality" might be a place to start, rather than accepting that you're placing yourself sensibly between two equally wrong extremes.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-74293798939983446962011-03-09T15:21:57.692+00:002011-03-09T15:21:57.692+00:00Norm puts my last comment more succinctly: "I...Norm puts my last comment more succinctly: "Imagine a play in which black characters are prominent and which uncritically relays several tropes standard in the racist disparaging of black people: such as that they're feckless and lazy, are sexual predators, lower down the evolutionary scale than whites, and so forth. Would this play be defensible on the ground that its author hadn't intended anything untoward by deploying such themes? [...] Only where anti-Jewish prejudice is concerned do some people try to swing it that there's no racism if it isn't in their minds. That it might be carried by words, symbols, well-known stereotypes, is a truth lost to them once Jews have become the subject."<br /><br />http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2011/03/a-word-in-her-tin-ear.html<br /><br />Or, imagine a series of allegations of consistent anti-black racism in Britain's fourth largest political party being ignored because "the party already has a policy against racism".bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-14695012351603142302011-03-09T15:04:58.269+00:002011-03-09T15:04:58.269+00:00The second key issue is what would constitute inst...The second key issue is what would constitute <b>institutional antisemitism</b>, and whether the party's reluctance to address complaints about antisemitism (while pursuing complaints about those complaining about antisemitism) can be called institutional antisemitism. I thought it might be helpful to have some definitions. <br /><br />This is Stokely Carmichael's definition of institutional racism: "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their color, culture or ethnic origin". <br /><br />Here are three other useful definitions, via the Guardian:<br /><br />The Macpherson report: "The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."<br /><br />A. Sivanandan, Institute of Race Relations: "Institutional racism is that which, covertly or overtly, resides in the policies, procedures, operations and culture of public or private institutions - reinforcing individual prejudices and being reinforced by them in turn."<br /><br />The Commission for Racial Equality: "If racist consequences accrue to institutional laws, customs or practices, that institution is racist whether or not the individuals maintaning those practices have racial intentions."<br /><br />A key feature of institutional racism is that it does not require individuals to be actively racist (thus whether or not particular Greens are or aren't antisemitic is irrelevant). Another key feature is that it is denied within the institution where it flourishes, and indeed those who perpetuate it may do so wholly innocently and with no awareness of what they are doing. Often, inactivity and omission are what allow institutional racism to thrive, and not active prejudice.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-49521418250062242252011-03-09T15:03:38.805+00:002011-03-09T15:03:38.805+00:00This thread has gone so my many different places t...This thread has gone so my many different places that there are many things I could say but would prefer it, if it continues, to get back to the core issue of the post: the question of whether or not there is antisemitism in the Green Party, whether that can be viewed as institutional antisemitism (as Toby suggests), how the Party has responded to it, and how it should respond to it, and perhaps how it can be explained.<br /><br />I think there are a couple of key issues here. <br /><br />The first is <b>the nature of antisemitism today</b>. Many of the allegations of antisemitism in the Party relate to particular intensified forms of Zionist- or Israel-bashing. Some anti-Zionists appear to make the a priori assumption that no criticism of Israel is antisemitic, while a tiny number of Zionists see all criticism of Israel as antisemitic. Most sensible anti-racists realise that some criticism of Israel is antisemitic. <br /><br />It seems therefore correct to develop <b>guidelines</b> for identifying when this is the case, and a simple definition of antisemitism as "racism against Jews" is inadequate here. <br /><br />The <b>EUMC working definition</b> may be a good starting point in developing such guidelines (I think it is), but is not enough. <br /><br />Whether or not the working definition is useful seems to me to be a question independent of who it was written by, whether it was written by Americans or Europeans, what it intended or who has or hasn't ratified it. I see no evidence for the claim that it suppresses or intends to suppress legitimate criticism of Israel. This is worth arguing about, but is also a distraction from the issue of how to deal with very real allegations of racism within the party.<br /><br />The Green Party, in my view, needs to develop its own policy, a process Toby Green was involved in, but a process that was undermined by the party including someone alleged to have been one of the perpetrators of antisemitic comments in its working group on defining it. In other words, the Party, after its initial suppressed report, has failed to act on the serious allegations of racism. <br /><br />Is this because of bullying by new members? Because of a kneejerk anti-Zionist assumption of bad faith whenever antisemitism is mentioned? Because they don't care?bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-51087159155508198392011-03-09T13:05:25.830+00:002011-03-09T13:05:25.830+00:00noga
agreed
sadly there is plenty of racism aroun...noga<br />agreed <br />sadly there is plenty of racism around without inventing it.<br />levi seemd rather more interested in accusing me of racism than the issue i raised.<br />Surely if your a dedicated anti-zionist you would make the effort to try and understand the reasons and arguments behind Zionism ?dave brocklynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10131050.post-48909624485298027542011-03-09T12:49:44.892+00:002011-03-09T12:49:44.892+00:00Noga, I de-spammed everything caught and took one ...Noga, I de-spammed everything caught and took one of your comments out of the spam box a couple of hours ago.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439386754907203808noreply@blogger.com