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Jewishness

I am away next week, and going to post some "from Bob's archive stuff" while I'm away. Looking through, I found two pieces by Jogo kind of relevant to one of the conversational threads in the great circumcision debate of last week: this one on Israeli antisemites, and this one on Gilad Atzmon. Note: link on Israeli antisemites fixed.
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Francis Sedgemore said…
"the great circumcision debate"?

Those of us disinclined to while away our days rummaging about in the undergarments of the Interwebs could do with a brief snippet.
19 July, 2012 00:12
George S said…
A proposal re secular Jews. You are a Jew if those who hate Jews say you are, and then you should be proud of it.
19 July, 2012 08:25
Anonymous said…
Nonsense. One can only be proud of one's hard gotten achievements, not of his or her ethnic affiliation, into which he/she came by being born and without any merit. And it seems wrong and irresponsible to give anybody else, especially a hater, the power to decide who/what you are and what makes you who you are. Seems more like a formula for being an ashamed Jew.

Rabbi Menachem Mendel Morgensztern of Kotzk, (1787 - 1859) more commonly referred to as the Kotzker Rebbe, was a Hasidic leader, well known for his incisive and down-to-earth philosophies, and sharp-witted sayings. He appears to have had little patience for false piety or stupidity.He said:


If I am I, because you are you, and you are you, because I am I, then I am not I, and you are not you. But if I am I because I am I, and you are you because you are you, then I am I and you are you, and we can talk.

As quoted in Let Us Reason Together (1970) by William Berkowitz and William Leonard Laurence

I think he was right.
20 July, 2012 09:20
Anonymous said…
Sorry. The above is from Noga. I'm posting from an Israelic omputer that behaves oddly about comments.
20 July, 2012 09:22
kellie said…
"Proud" might not be quite right, but I have a memory that Charlie Chaplin made a similar argument, saying he wasn't sure if he had Jewish ancestry, but that if a hater called him a Jew he felt that he should refuse to deny it rather than allow the suggestion that there could be anything shameful in the word.

I can't find the exact quote, I'm afraid.
20 July, 2012 17:03
The Contentious Centrist said…
When Chaplin was "accused" of being a Jew by some highly placed government official he said something like: "Alas, Sir, I cannot claim this honour". Chaplim himself was not Jewish but his half-brother was.

Noga
22 July, 2012 10:20
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