Slowly catching up

Bob's recommendations: Long live NATO's anti-imperialism; An Iranian capitalism and the search for Islam; Amnesty International and the challenge of Shalil Shetty; John Sweeney's World Service documentary on Stalin's "useful idiots" (h/t Gil); Human Rights, The Gaza Protests and the Future of Afghanistan; the BNP, Israel and "the Zionists"; Shlomo Yosef on the boycotters of left and right; John Rentoul v the Stoppers; Laurie Penny has her bottom squeezed by a Young Conservative; David Cameron is not middle class; the Rushdie affair and responsibility; and pretty much everything at On A Raised Beach.

Jogo's recommendations: Ron Radosh on the hubris of Peter Beinart; and this fine album cover:

More to follow!


kellie said…
Thanks for the link, but I did write ANTI imperialism!
Anonymous said…

An Iranian Capitalism and the search for Islam
bob said…
Sorry Kellie, sorry Carl!! Both your links amended.
Noga said…
From Radosh's conclusion:

"I wonder what a poll of Israelis would say if they were asked who is more their friend and supporter, Pat Robertson or Peter Beinart?"

I wonder if a meaningful poll could be conducted about such a question as Israelis by and large are not likely to know much about either. Israelis have their own Peter Beinarts and Pat Robertsons to contend with and more important realities to mull and I'm happy to say that no Israeli journalist or clegyman rises to the level of radical venom or religious fanaticism, respectively, exhibited any of these two. I saw Beinart on a CNN panel about the Ground Zero mosque just yesterday and I was surprised at how little he had to say and how cliched and tone-deaf it sounded.
EscapeVelocity said…
No Israeli Religious Jew rises to the level of religious fanaticism Pat Robertson.

Hope you had an enjoyable holiday.
Dubai Jazz said…
" I'm happy to say that no Israeli journalist or clegyman rises to the level of radical venom or religious fanaticism, respectively, exhibited any of these two. "

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the spiritual leader of Shas Israeli party, speaking about Muslims: “They’re stupid. Their religion is as ugly as they are,”

And countless other examples...
Bob said…
Lots of Israeli religious Jews are every bit as fanatical as Pat Robertson, and a fair few are a lot more fanatical. No side has a monopoly on either sanity or insanity.

I agree, however, that Radosh's point is irrelevant.
I think we disagree about the meaning of fanatic, Bob. Calling Muslims stupid and ugly may be unseemly and ill-mannered in a rabbi, but there is nothing there to worry Muslims or arouse concern for their life and well-being. Which you cannot say for the levels of very threatening incitement that flows from Muslim clergymen about Jews. That I call fanaticism.

As for Pat Robertson's fanaticism:

"Controversies surrounding Robertson include his earlier work as a faith healer,[35] his claim that some Protestant denominations harbor the spirit of the Antichrist,[36] and his claims of having the power to deflect hurricanes through prayer;[37] he has also denounced Hinduism as "demonic"[38] and Islam as "Satanic."[39] Robertson has issued multiple condemnations of feminism,[40] homosexuality,[41] abortion[42] and liberal professors.[43] Robertson also had financial ties to former presidents Charles Taylor[44] of Liberia and Mobutu Sese Seko[25] of Zaire, both internationally denounced for their human rights violations. Robertson was criticized worldwide for his call for Hugo Chavez’s assassination[25] and for his remarks concerning Ariel Sharon's health as an act of God.[45]"

I repeat, there is no Jewish rabbi who rises to this level of intolerance. Not to belittle the possibility that there are some very stupid rabbis and some very extreme settler rabbis. They, however, do not command the attention and admiration of tens of millions of believers.
This comment illustrates my point:

Radicalization of Arabs in Israel is done mainly through the mosques and the preachings of imams. After Baruch Goldstein and Ygal Amir, Israelis became very aware of the dangers of unscrutinized radicalization. You can't say the same applies to the Muslim side where massacres of Jews are met with celebrations, not shame.

'They believe that they are doing God’s work based on his promise of Gaza to the Jews. "This land is Israel and it belongs to the Jews because God gave it to them"...Some of the young men have already targeted Palestinians.'

...and against other Jews considered not sufficiently pious.

As Bob said, no side has a monopoly on extremism.
Bob said…
It is absolutely correct that the most extreme settler rabbis do not have mass followings in Israeli Jewish society, whereas the most extreme Jew-hating Imams do. And it is true that the comments quoted by Dubai Jazz do not amount to incitement to killing.

Baruch Goldstein and Ygal Amir, however, are exemplars of the fact that fanatical rabbis do exist, and their words can lead to murderous deeds. The numbers of homicidally violent Arab-haters in the settlements is numerically small, but they have guns and they have been tolerated, to some extent, by the Israeli state.

I'm not sure of the calculus by which we might compare the violence Pat Robertson may have incited with that incited by hate preachers in the Middle East, so I'm not trying to exonerate him in any way. And also worth noting that Dubai Jazz has expressed more than his hair share of deeply hateful views!
Anonymous said…
Re Peter Beinart op-ed and Haaretz saying July-14-2020 he doesn't go far enough.

It's a club where whoever screams louder the A. slur, thinks is more special.
Don't be fooled by phrasing it as suggestions. The term "liberal Zionists" has become more and more of an empty title.

What all these "thinkers" won't divulge, is pragmatism. Since it doesn't make bumber-stickers. Or headline grabbing.

There are many Israelis , who are--ready for this cliche?--concerned about life, survival. And don't put much thought or concerned into Zionism as ideology.
This is not to say they deny historic ties to the land.
Do these writers deny legitimate worry of entities (moderate or radical Apartheid Arab Palestine) that incite for, justify even glorify killing of Jews in Israel? Are they totally blind to genocidal Islamic Republic that doesn't even share any border, yet has its bloody hands full at the border and inside Israel?

Want real pragmatic suggestions?
Begin reforming 'Palestinian' education, as a start.

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