Friday, July 04, 2008

Something for the weekend

1. In Italy, discrimination against Roma people is ruled acceptable, because they are all criminals. (More: Snoopy/hak)

2. Anthony Julius on antisemitism's fellow travellers. (H/T: Snoopy)

3. Usually, left of centre politicians like to say the Gaza Strip is worse than the Warsaw Ghetto. Unusually, the SNP are saying that Glasgow is worse than the Gaza Strip. (H/T Shuggy)

7 comments:

max said...

I raed the news from Italy (in Italian) a couple of days ago and although it is pretty awful it is not the case that, as the Guardian reports, that the high court has ruled that "it is acceptable to discriminate against Roma on the grounds that they are thieves" but that the person that accused the gypsies of being thieves has not committed the crime of racial abuse because his claim did not revolve around the nature of those gypsies but around their behaviour.
The court judgement concluded that it would have been nevertheless a crime, but not of a racial nature, if the claim (that all gypsies are thieves) wasn't true, but to see whether that was true or not than it would take another trial.

I'm not saying that I like this judgement but in Italy the judiciary is very independant from the government, this is a matter of legal philosophy and although racists will claim a victory and who knows how many awful episodes will sparkle out of this sentence the fact is that the court thought that technically in this case the abuse wasn't racially motivated.

Will said...

Tell Max to go fuck himself -- and hard.

I haven't got the time for semantics like that cunt goes in for.

Expel Italy from the EU. The EU should demand the repayment of all funds delivered to Italy since the foundation of the EU and Italy should be wiped off the map. It should have been after WW11 anyway (as should Germany). Divide the shithole amongst it neighbours and transport a large part of its Capital to Ethiopia.

max said...

I can be even more abusive than that should I choose to, but that would be childish, to say that you're an idiot is enough I think.

Anyway, since you're not too clever I explain it more clearly, for all those as thick as you (small but noisy audience).

The issue is that the Guardian wrote something that is quite different from what happened, it just didn't happen that a Court has ruled that discrimination is legal, an important point in my opinion.
There is a big difference between discrimination made legal and what happened.
By the way, didn't almost the same happened here to Nick Griffin? Did the Guardian write that racism was made legal then?

And speaking of the specific I'm afraid that this was a disaster waiting to happen because to bring to court people for being racist when the claim is legally ambiguous and the racist can afford a good lawyer is in my opinion a tactical mistake. What is in common language a racist may not be so for the law.

I know, that these are very sophisticated concept for men of action that want to wipe out countries and why did I waist 10 minutes of my time answering you is beyond me but maybe, maybe one day you'll get it.

ross said...

i'm no friend of the SNP, but i'm a bit confused as to why the fact that the life expectancy in certain parts of glasgow is lower than that of the gazza strip is an issue that somehow shouldn't be discussed, and instead those raising seem to be castigated for doing so, yep fair enough its election games but the fact still stands, although it's clear that one thing new labour don't like is facts

The Contentious Centrist said...

"(small but noisy audience). "

We discussed here the subject of noise:

http://brockley.blogspot.com/2008/04/between-burke-and-paine-in-twenty-first.html

bob said...

I completely defer to Max on the translation question. It wouldn't surprise me for the Guardian to get things wrong... And clearly Max is not endorsing or apologising for the judgment, just showing it is not quite so awful.

I would still endorse Will's statement that Italy is "ruled over by a corrupt gang of criminals and has a thick ignorant clown and corrupt tosspot as prime Minister." But it is hardly exceptional in this...

Ross, I agree that the extreme poverty of Glsgow should be discussed, and the comparison with the Gaza strip is striking and appropriate.

It was taken (or opportunistically portrayed) as an insult to the people of Glasgow East. But if anyone should be insulted, I guess it is the people of the Gaza Strip, who have to contend with the twin burden of Islamo-fascist thugocracy on the Strip and partial (recently alleviated) Israeli blockade.

But the fact that their life expectancy is better than that of many Britons should give them pause for thought, but they are so locked into the politics of ressentiment and victimhood (and their white fellow-travellers so locked into a vicarious pleasure in Palestinian eternal victimhood) that such pause for thought is unlikely.

Kind of related: I notice that Naomi Klein's recent Shock Doctrine describes the Israeli seperation barrier as NOT exceptional, but pointing the way for the rest of the world, with increasingly fenced and gated communities protecting the relatively rich but materially insecure from the depredations of the multitudes. A scenario that I imagine Ross can relate to: I just googled |"gated communty" Catford| and got 310 hits, mostly estate agent blurbs advertising high-security "luxury"/"mews" developments in the Catford jungle.

bob said...

P.S. on Glasgow East: see Shuggy.

P.P.S. I am still processing the image of the "Gazza strip" and imagining Paul Gascoigne getting his kit off while doing the Hun-sectarian flute gesture he infamously did at Celtic Park. Which could take us neatly back to the related issue of Beitar Jerusalem, but won't.